The Soul seekers with Ellen Podcast

SPEAKERS

Dani Sheil, Ellen Shilling

Ellen Shilling  00:01

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the soul seekers podcast with me your host Ellen shilling. And today I have my wonderful, dear friend, Dani Sheil on the big blue chair with me today. And we’re going to have what we hope is a very informing lighthearted and fun chat about self-care and actually just letting go of crap because we all have our doing too much in our lives. So anyway, that’s the intention of our podcast, and we might deviate off into different directions as we go along. Let’s see where this takes us. Great. So, thank you for being here, Dani. And, yeah, I really wanted Dani on the podcast, because not only is she a wonderful person, mother, yoga teacher, life coach, and so much more. But we always have such a good giggle. We spent years in a car travelling, going around the country doing retreats, and we always had these great chats and great giggles as well. So welcome to the podcast. Thank you for coming. Exactly. Drumroll.

Dani Sheil  01:04

Thank you, Ellen. Oh, good. Lovely comfy, big blue chair.

Ellen Shilling  01:09

Thank you very much. So would you like to give people a kind of background into you where you’ve been how you’ve gotten to be here. short journey so far. Yes.

Dani Sheil  01:21

So, I originally did Hotel Management. I was born in Africa to Irish parents went to school here, but did a huge amount of travelling. And when I did Hotel Management, I ended up in New York in the late 90s. Stressed in my job I turned to Reiki to try to alleviate some eczema that I had all over my hands. And from there went on to become a Reiki Master. And from there went on to do my yoga. So yeah, so that was back in 99, Reiki Master 2001 yoga 2002. And I’ve enjoyed it ever since. So, as you mentioned, we were hosting together those retreats, I can’t believe it’s 10 years ago. It’s crazy. 10 years ago, we started. Yeah, and like you said, so much fun. I think that’s like a huge part of a lot of it don’t you know, a lot of people kind of, in my eyes, what I have done over the journey is heal, not through necessarily always meditation and all of that which is fantastic. But also bringing in that fun element because that laughter and that letting go and that softness can really open you up to healing as well.

Ellen Shilling  02:35

Yes. And we don’t do enough laughing We can get so bogged down in the mundane, the every day, that we forget to bring that play aspect into our lives.

Dani Sheil  02:46

Absolutely. And I think actually, a lot of that came with you and I as well. Like, you know, I always had the same worry.

Dani Sheil  03:03

And you go “Dani, every car journey you say this?”

Ellen Shilling  03:09

Yeah, we used to have fantastic conversations.

Ellen Shilling  03:12

I always remember the car was just jammed with bolsters and yoga mats, and blankets, like incense and candles and get in the front and just have a big, big natter and a big laugh about everything. And as you say, I can’t believe that was 10 years ago. We did so many retreats around the country. Number one I remember I always, and I’ve told you this story before, remember how we met. Dani was holding a yoga class and somebody asked me to go to it, she  owned the studio. Yeah, it was positive was feedback she was looking for. And anyway, basically, Dani had me at the lavender head massage temple massage that she gives at the end of every yoga class. And I completely fell in love with you. Once that happens. I went okay, this is just incredible. And I think but from that then as well, I think we started laughing very quickly. And that I think we have that shared value of just realising how much how important laughter and play and fun is in our healing journey in our spiritual journey in our path in life. And every time we see each other, we just end up having a giggle even when we are giving out and we’re moaning about our lives and but then we kind of turn to each other and have a laugh about it as well and immediately that brings in that lightness.

Ellen Shilling  04:39

I know, I was talking about this with a client of mine yesterday. And she was saying, how do I do relaxation? And I was like, can you can you hear (what you’re saying) but I totally got where she was coming from because I do the same thing.  We have such a doing mentality that it nearly needs to be a set of steps that need to be laid out in order to help me to relax.

Dani Sheil  04:39

And I really think so much of that is important, like we were saying a few minutes ago when something is wrong, I think – Okay, well, I’ll do my meditation, I’ll do this and I’ll put this on and I’ll do my yoga practice and, and it’s adding to this list of overwhelm that most of us are feeling as opposed to you know what actually What do I need to let go of?

Ellen Shilling  05:04

I mean, how crazy is that? Relax, right? Even I notice that, I’m sure it’s from the generation of my mother’s time. You know, I wake up and I do this, and I have my list. And, you know, until I get through the list, I can’t relax,

Ellen Shilling  05:46

Working hard to in order to deserve that pleasure

Dani Sheil 05:49

Yeah, I suppose to you know, like, it’s more and more, obviously, as I get older, and I had a big birthday last year

Ellen Shilling  05:58

Did you – 40? 30? Considering we have what we realised before this call that we’ve a combined experience of 40 years in the wellness field. So yeah, yeah, so that’s make us feel old. But anyway, apologies. Go on, keep going.

Dani Sheil  06:16

So, but anyway, from turning that big birthday on, I suddenly realised, if you  look back at history and the way cultures are changed, and time etc.- we are here for a blip, and a really short time. And it’s like, you can make it heavy. Or you can make it as light as possible. Obviously, adversity is going to come and it’s going to knock you down. But getting caught up in adversity, when it’s not actually yours to own, that’s what a lot of us are doing.

Ellen Shilling  06:43

Oh, tell me more about that.

Dani Sheil  06:45

Like, we were just saying, there’s a lot of tragedy at the moment. And it’s, it’s awful. A lot of times we can get caught up in it by comparing yourself or almost putting yourself into the situation. And feeling that heaviness as opposed to being a support for the people that need it and saying, you know, this is happening to you, and not actually taking it on board, finding that ability to find the boundaries and step away. Which is so easy for me to sit here and say, what you know, it’s like, it’s life and it’s going to hit everybody at some stage, whether it’s in your past, whether it’s coming.

Ellen Shilling  07:19

And no amount of positive thinking is going to stop that from happening as well. No amount of vibrationally putting yourself “up there” is going to stop that adversity. Of course, it’s not

Dani Sheil  07:31

Absolutely. But again, I think these tools are probably things that help us get through it.

Ellen Shilling  07:36

So, is it fun, letting go and boundaries that you find are your values? To help you in life? Or am I being too simplistic in that?

Dani Sheil  07:50

Yes, I mean that like, it’s like, we have to pull ourselves towards the “fun”, we don’t naturally, unfortunately (reside there). There is a lot of research done on serotonin levels and how we are as humans have that baseline of happiness level and you can pull it up or down. Like that research that was done when you win the lottery and you get up, but then you come back to your baseline after you’ve spent it all.

Ellen Shilling  08:19

Yeah, you’ve had a really good time. And a really expensive holiday. So yeah, you do you come back down and yeah with anything good that happens in your life. You spike, don’t you. And then you come back down to that baseline of happiness.

Dani Sheil  08:30

Yeah, yeah. And unfortunately, it’s far easier for us to sit down and be more, negative. And, you know, think that “my life is hard” That’s easier for us as human beings because we want to protect ourselves. Whereas that happy joyful side is a little bit more of an effort. But yet, like, I keep thinking, I mean, as I said, I’m 51 now, and in 25 years, 30 years, please, God, if I’m lucky – I’d like to be able to say I enjoyed most of it, as opposed to sitting around, you know, trying to pull myself out of the past or things that have hurt or the adversity that comes you know.  So, the letting go is a huge part, because I think we’ve all taken on so much. And every time we have a little bit of a gap in the schedule, you know, you think –  I’ll just make a phone call, or just, you know, send an email or I just send a text or do a social media post or whatever it is, you know, I suppose say – Why don’t I just sit in the garden and look at my flowers instead.

Ellen Shilling  09:37

And that’s letting go for you.

Dani Sheil  09:38

For me that’s letting go Yeah. And it’s so hard.

Ellen Shilling  09:49

What is it about that, that gives you that space to let go? Because it’s such a big topic this letting go and surrendering and you know, there’s so much in it and everybody gets it, they want to let go, but they don’t know how to let go. Because we’re not taught this stuff. We’re taught to just constantly be striving and pushing or forcing things. But how? How do you let go and what is letting go for you?

Dani Sheil  10:11

For me, like so when I was about 10, or 11, there was some different things going on, I’d moved school about six times and bit of a trauma happened, and I couldn’t sleep, and the local GP put me on sleeping tablets at 11. My uncle who is a doctor went bananas, my parents didn’t put me in them as they were quite progressive, they called my uncle instead and he said no too. So, my dad did a body scan with me, it’s a kind of meditation, and I don’t know how he knew what it was because he wouldn’t have been, you know, he didn’t meditate but anyway, he got me to do the body scan meditation and for me, it’s always been a tool that I’ve had. I wasn’t thinking it was mindful or thinking it was a Buddhist practice or anything =  just okay, this helps me to go to sleep to relax. So, I think if you can do something to pull yourself away from your mind and into your body, it’s a good start.

Ellen Shilling  11:13

Like that moment in the garden, when you’re looking at your flowers, in some way that helps you to connect in with the body. And then that helps you to let go of something, some stress or anxiety,  just a little bit of something.

Ellen Shilling  11:26

There’s a lovely story of the Golden Buddha, I repeat it a lot in my classes and online as it represents so much. But basically, there was this golden Buddha statue in Thailand, I think, about 100 or 200 years ago. And it was very precious and was made of gold, hence the name The Golden Buddha. But there were disputes breaking out in neighboring communities, and they needed to protect this Golden Buddha as was quite a large one. So, all the local community covered the Golden Buddha with  layers and layers of mud. So much so that when the people from these warring factions came through the village, they saw the Buddha and they went, “Oh, that’s just a, worthless Buddha, that’s just that’s not worth anything.” They kept on going, the Buddha was completely ignored.

Ellen Shilling  12:22

Then nature came and kind of covered up the Golden Buddha even more. Many years later, about 100 years later, there was a little boy meditating underneath this, this Golden Buddha, and next minute, a piece of mud just cracked away, and expose a tiny chunk of gold. The boy ran to fetch his friends, and they all pulled away the layers and layers and layers to reveal what was hidden underneath. This is a teaching story, that we are all that golden Buddha, that we are born with that golden energy within us we are born without the feelings of I’m not good enough, my life has to be perfect, or I have to be perfect, or  that I’m not able to do this, that or the other.

Ellen Shilling  13:04

We were born with this energy, this vitality, this potentiality. And then life just is the pieces of mud – that’s the conditioning, the beliefs, like I have to conform when I go to school, oh, I’m no good at study or no good at exams, I’m not able to do this, I’m not able to do that, heartbreak, loss are all the pieces of mud. And the teaching story is that we don’t need to work at becoming something else. We already have everything within and that our whole path our whole spiritual path is about go.

Ellen Shilling  13:37

It’s just about letting go of all those things that happen to us, letting go of the emotions, we can’t let go of things that happened because we can change the fact that that doctor wanted to put you on those sleeping tablets, at such a young age, but we can release the emotions around it. So, it’s not affecting us so much –  we need to reclaim who we are, which is that golden-ness. It’s a very simple story but I always come back to it because we tend to think the spiritual path is doing and adding more and doing, doing, doing and having our sea swims and our vegan lifestyle and our make your own clothes and hug a tree. And I love all of that. But it’s a pressure and so the whole idea is that it’s actually about letting go. And I think there’s something really lovely in that, in such a doing mentality and doing culture, to actually say no, you don’t need to do anything. To be happy is just you need to let go.

Dani Sheil  14:33

Yes, what if everything you have right now was already enough?

Ellen Shilling  14:44

Wow, I think I need to sit with that moment. That’s amazing. What if it was? What would we do? Yeah, there’d be no striving, but there’d still be ambition, but it would be coming from a place of enough rather than a place of not enough

Dani Sheil  15:01

Imagine how easy it would be . When I lived in Africa, I remember we used to live about eight hours in the middle of the bush. And so, we’d fly in and we’d squeeze into the back of the car for like 15 minutes, the four of us my Mum, my brother and sister, we would stop in a village in the way and they’d have those bottles of coke and you’d buy the bottle of coke and the little local kids with no shoes on barely clothed, some of them naked. And they come up and they would try and rub our skin see if you know, the white came out. They were just beautiful, the big white teeth and the gorgeous eyes. And at the time you saved equivalent of 10 cent or something, if you brought your bottle back so and we’d give them the bottles and the first thing they would do is put a stick in it and roll them up and down the road. They’d laugh and giggle because this was their toy, rolling the bottle up and down the road with the stick. The joy they had when they had absolutely nothing. The joy that they had far exceeded any multimillionaire. I’ve witnessed on television, having launched a rocket into the sky, or whatever, you know – it’s what if you could just say what I have now is enough. You know.

Dani Sheil  15:08

What do you think our blocks are to really embracing that and holding that?

Dani Sheil  16:19

Society. 

Ellen Shilling  16:21

Yeah, media and this idea of what “perfection” looks like, this is what “happiness” looks like, ….

Dani Sheil  16:27

I think we get stuck on this treadmill of – this is what you do, this is how you do it, this is what you strive for…… and off you go. And then there’s limitations put on that, or there’s expectations put on that or whatever it is. And you just roll along with it. And most of us just roll along with it without even thinking or even in our field (of work)

Ellen Shilling  16:43

Yes, in the spiritual field/ wellness field, there’s a lot of that, which really surprised me. Yeah,

Dani Sheil  16:54

Yes, and I remember being very kind of –  Whoa, you know, the fellow yoga teachers, most of whom are gorgeous and occasionally you get one or two, and you’re like, Whoa!

Ellen Shilling  17:04

Yes, like does it need to look that big,

Dani Sheil  17:04

As in we can embrace what we’re doing without having 50 million followers? Can instead we just embrace the fact that we’ve actually helped one person.

Ellen Shilling  17:04

Whoa how?

Dani Sheil  17:24

It doesn’t need to look that big. For me, I believe we’re here in service. Yeah, human being the human experience is to experience living in all its glory, and all its adversity, but it’s also about service. And what we do. And if everybody gave a little and felt they had enough. Wow, I think it’d be a far easier world.

Ellen Shilling  17:50

Wouldn’t it just. So, what do you think is the first step of that is that going back to the letting go of the conditioning? Which is difficult? I mean, I say that so easily. I mean, just like, oh, the conditioning, you know, your life doesn’t have to look like this, this and this. But if it’s reinforced every day, and your peers and your family and everybody else is subscribed to that same belief, that’s hard. Of course, it is. But you feel that that’s the first step is becoming aware of it?

Dani Sheil  17:55

Absolutely, awareness is definitely the first thing. And I mean, just look at our teenagers, I mean, all the girls wear the same clothes, all the boys wear the same clothes, you know, its social media, and everything has them all conditioned into that.

Dani Sheil  18:33

Now, luckily, our generation, which is a couple of years older than a teenager, …. just a few. We weren’t programmed by that. But we’re so programmed by so much of you know, how we should respond or react to different people. And this is where our retreats were always amazing. I used to love when I see and I still with the retreats that I do, that some women come who are high powered CEOs of company’s and then you’d have a mom of four, and the labels all get thrown away you’re all on the Yoga mat together, you’re all sitting together, we’re all discussing something over dinner. We all have the same worries about our children or our lives or wherever going with our parents. And when you can break down those barriers and understand that everybody is the same in a different way, but allowing everybody to be themselves. I think it’s a huge it’s a huge step into letting go. I don’t have to fit into this box because I’m a yoga teacher. I do life coaching. I have got two children. I am married. I live in South County Dublin. Like, I don’t have to fit into a box with that, I need to let go and just say you know what, you know, I’m a girl who’s sitting in the garden of my bare feet looking at a rose.

Ellen Shilling  19:47

And that’s okay. And that’s enough

Dani Sheil  19:49

It is enough. Yeah.

Ellen Shilling  19:50

So do you think that sitting in a group and connecting with people on that level, which is created so beautifully by you and your retreats and your spaces and that yoga class that I went to you and all the yoga classes that I was lucky enough to go to of your –  that allows people to meet other people without those labels, and to find who they are without those labels as well. And in doing so that helps us helps them to begin to let go of that conditioning. Is that what you find?

Dani Sheil  20:17

Absolutely, and I think a lot of it, is it that word I know it’s overused, but like wellness and wellbeing

Ellen Shilling  20:23

Oh, journey? No, no, “Authentic”

Dani Sheil  20:32

So if we could just like we have followed so much of the social programming that so many of us don’t even know how to make a choice about what we need, we can’t tap into our emotions about, it’s like the inner dialogue –  “Dani you need to let go for the summer,  not do classes” “but they want me to do classes, and I have to keep going” , “No, you’re tired, you need to step away, you need to sit in your garden, you need to go for a swim”, you know, because this is my conditioning. And this is what I am. And this is how I’m perceived the world. Actually, it’s alright to say no, be authentic, and I need a break. I’m tired, you know, or whatever, whatever that is for you. Yeah, look, I’m also fortunate enough that I’m able to take six weeks off over the summer. So, I do get that as well. As you know, we have to work we have to. There are things that we have to do in life. But how many of the things that we do are things that we actually have to do?

Ellen Shilling  21:28

Yeah, busy for being safe sake of being busy or needing to be busy, because it’s too hard to stop and actually look at the pieces of mud that are on us that are the layers that need to be released. That’s a big problem. I think for people as well. Sometimes just easier to keep, keep running, keep distracted, distracted, distracted, I won’t stop I won’t ever stop because they have to stop have to look at this and it’s too much for me. And I did that for a long time, myself. Huge amount. And I think that’s why I did the job that I do now. That’s why I started it all those years ago was just I can’t keep running away from myself.

Dani Sheil  22:00

But even if you look at you, like you and I would have had similar like our journeys when you stepped away from the scientist, like I remember those first couple of years that we met, there was a struggle there for you because you’re so spiritual and you’re so deep. There was a struggle for you to balance the two. Yeah, as was for me. Yeah, my friends were all socialising and drinking and partying and I thought I have to give it up.

Ellen Shilling  22:27

Oh, yeah, that authenticity is hilarious in the beginning because I was a smoker and a Reiki Master. Yeah, I was I was a committed smoker. I know. And I’d be spraying myself with everything before a client and I be on the mouthwash and the mints and everything else, and sneaking the smokes in between clients. And I completely destroyed myself with guilt and self-sabotage in between. Because who am I, I can’t be a Reiki Master. I can’t do all this. I can’t tell people what to do when I’m a smoker. That’s absolutely terrible. But then, as you say, coming on back to who you are, and actually just saying no, who’s to say I can’t drink and be a yoga teacher and smoke and do energy work and be a life coach? You know, just because we’re working in this field doesn’t mean that we have our shit sorted?

Dani Sheil  23:11

yeah. And again, the label? Yeah, I do remember you and laughing on a retreat, do you remember? Somebody came up and said, hi, um, (it was the first breakfast) do you um drink coffee?

Dani Sheil  23:25

Do you remember that? Do I what! Give me the strongest one you have, because, you know, it’s funny how people think

Ellen Shilling  23:34

Yes, they had those perceptions and I think one of them got very, very surprised when I said, where’s the meat! I’m a meat lover, I love a good cook chicken. But I totally get where they were coming from, because I was trying to put those labels on myself as well. And I remember you saying that as well, as a yoga teacher, I need to look a certain way. Instagram is really full of that isn’t it not so much with the work that I do, but more with the work that you do.

Dani Sheil  23:59

Totally, the Yoga body. I never had a yoga body. Oh my gosh. And I mean, I look back to those days where I remember thinking – I need to lose weight. Now. I look back and I think actually, you know, I was fine, you know, but because it didn’t fit into what I had a as the perception in my eyes of what a yoga teacher should look like, you know, it was a struggle for me exactly the same it was back to not being my authentic self.

Dani Sheil  24:24

And since I’ve kind of accepted that I’ve noticed, obviously, I’m not going to attract the 20-year-old who wants to flip from, you know, headstand back into back bends. That’s just not where I am in my practice now. But I will attract the woman who is at a midlife, not crisis that’s too strong a word, but at a change in her life and she wants to find a balanced way of keeping her body healthy and being mindful of her mental and emotional state. And so, you know, it’s all different. We’re all different and if you can hone in and find your authentic itself, then you can reach the people who resonate with you.

Ellen Shilling  25:05

Was there a moment? Where you let that go of that perception of that yoga body or was that over a period of time that you became more comfortable? Or was it the turning with your big birthday?

Dani Sheil  25:19

Funny thing to say it was probably COVID When I went online, and I had to look at myself. But I got these lovely responses from people because, you know, I was doing free classes over the first lockdown,  because I knew we all going to need it. I got these lovely messages from people and I went, they’re not going to sit there and go look at her with her belly and her what now – or whatever I thought they were thinking.

Dani Sheil  25:46

So that kind of started it. And then I think the age thing, you know, this is where I am. You know, I’ve got two teenage boys, I have the wrinkles. I have the lines of worry about the eyes. Yeah, I think a lot of it is come with age, not the letting go thing. But the acceptance and the authenticity has come with age for sure. For sure. And I’m definitely not as hard on myself as I used to be. Still, not always very nice, but I try far more to be kinder. And I think again, it’s  that I started to let go, you know, let go of the trying to fit into a box for that reason.

Ellen Shilling  26:35

It’s so funny, because I remember, again, going back to that time when I met you first and don’t know, we ended up somewhere. And we don’t even know if we had a drink or didn’t have a drink. But I remember thinking, – tis girl is even better than the yoga teacher, you know, the “yoga teacher”, because she, she’s living life, you’re full of life; if you’re having a drink, or not having a drink, and outside on socialising, that you were your true self, if you know what I mean. And that actually made it a lot more relatable for me, because I wouldn’t be able to relate to that yoga body person, because I’d be looking at them going, oh, gosh, okay, I need to know I need to go get bought Botox, I need to lose two stone, I ended up walking away feeling worse about myself. I didn’t want to do Botox; I didn’t want to lose any weight. But I end up comparing myself because human beings compare themselves. It’s part of our primitive brain. But I remember because you were beyond that label, you were yourself, I could relate an awful lot more to you, because you embrace aspects of yourself. And I was just went, Okay, now I can really be myself with this person. So, I think in letting go of those labels, it actually makes you as you say, more relatable to the people that you want to work with anyway, who are similar people. And then you can be of service when you’re in that space with people who you’ve a similar vibe with.

Dani Sheil  28:08

And I mean there’s nothing against those Yoga teachers they are amazing. They have a different type of clientele, or a different student wants to learn from them. And they have and if that’s the whole thing, we don’t have to compare, because there’s enough, you know, for everyone, you know, there’s enough students for everybody, there’s enough clients for people, you know. But yeah, and I think that’s what you said there about living life, and you’re the same Ellen, like this, like, I keep going back. And it’s just I’m really woken up to the fact that I actually have another day, I have another day to see what I can get from this life. You know, I’m so fortunate, and, you know, there’s a lot of sadness in the world, and a lot of people who aren’t as fortunate at the moment and, going through a lot of pain. And I’m actually blessed, because, and I appreciate it now, because I don’t know what’s around the corner, you know, everybody gets something at some stage. It’s not. I’m not saying it from the point of smugness or anything like that. Just right now.  today, I’m blessed.  And I think you do lovely, gratitude meditations. I mean, I think it was that and around the time COVID that I really started focusing on the gratitude practice

Ellen Shilling  29:20

And you know, that that that baseline of happiness that you were talking about earlier, like that we’re all born with a certain amount of happiness based on our genetics and our conditioning and our upbringing. But we can, like a lot of like you mentioned earlier because of that spike, but the practice of gratitude over time changes the brain shape and actually brings up that baseline doesn’t it and it does change your perspective.

Dani Sheil  29:42

Totally. Yeah. And it’s like anything when you start to focus on it, I mean, it’s a hard practice to get started

Ellen Shilling  29:47

Oh yeah, like you’re rolling your eyes saying “I’m grateful for this, I’m grateful for my husband. He did something today. I’m sure he did. Oh, yeah, he put the top on the toothpaste. I’m really grateful.” He’s great. He gets a hard time during these podcasts, but he is great. But yeah, I think gratitude for me, especially from my past and how it is sometimes I find myself still slipping down that hole of kind of depression. And that gratitude thing, while it can be really, really hard sometimes it is the one thing that really helps me to pull myself out of there. And I’m not going around going, oh, Isn’t life wonderful? Isn’t life great, and seeing things through that rose tinted glasses? Which I think some of the positive thinking stuff out there is it can be a bit like that Can’t it? And I’m just like, oh, no, you’re too positive. You’re like, are you denying and some times in the crap and in the anger and in the grief and in the challenges are our greatest lessons? So are we losing out if we are just focused on positive thinking. All the time.

Dani Sheil  30:50

I’ve done a couple of online class courses with Martin Seligman. You know, the positive psychologist, who is one of the main researchers in Penn University of Pennsylvania. If you saw him, he’s not exactly Mr. bubbly. It’s not about happy, happy, it was about reframing and learning. And I mean, no less than you the journey of up and down. I think the difference is 10 years, or 15, or 20 years ago, when I was down it lasts a lot longer. Whereas now when I start feeling a little bit low, it’s there. It’s a struggle, but the tools are more accessible. And because we have the practices we do, we get into it quicker, because we have the baseline,

Ellen Shilling  31:38

So sometimes those downs are needed to tell us something as well, I think, like you were saying earlier, by taking time off, sometimes we need to feel that depletion of energy to go whoa, hold on a second, I need some self-care here. I’m so focused on helping other people with their self-care that I’m not looking after my own.

Dani Sheil  31:54

And then how often does it take somebody else to tell us? No.

Ellen Shilling  31:58

That’s where the human being comes in, doesn’t like I teach this stuff. Somebody once said to me, you teach what you need, Ellen, and I went –  that is brilliant. You teach what you need, is, and it’s true, I teach exactly what I need to keep me on an even keel. And that’s where huge amount of the value of my work comes from, is that I’m doing every day what I need to do for myself, and in so doing, hopefully being of service to other people. At the same time, I’m filling up my cup, I’m hopefully holding space for other people to hold to fill up their cup.

Dani Sheil  32:32

I know it’s kind of it’s like a game of tennis.

Dani Sheil  32:40

How often do I miss that ball? Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it is.

Dani Sheil  32:45

I think the thing is, unfortunately, a lot of us, when we get to this scenario, it’s like we were saying about the whole, you know, what do I need to do now to feel better? What like, you know, I do my meditation? No, I’m, when I say like, go, I do my best. My one thing is I meditate daily, and a yoga practice How often do I do a physical practice? You know, I’m not as often as I used to as I have a few injuries at the moment. So, I’m taking a bit of rest time. But I still do stretch and whatever, but the meditation is a no brainer. And I think, for me, it sets me off, it’s not always, like 20 minutes, half an hour, sometimes it’s just that five minutes to stop.

Ellen Shilling  33:25

What does it do for you?

Dani Sheil  33:27

It pulls me out of my head, it pulls me out, if I can feel my body, it’s like, okay, this body, the mind, all of it, is just the house for the soul, you know, the soul is existing and living in that energy is reacting to your energy now, and it’s reacting to all that. And all this external stuff is just the house and if I can pull myself into that awareness and out of the house, I get a lot more than and I get to appreciate the things that the house can actually do. You know, that whether it’s the mind and the thoughts, and the joy of friendships, or you know, frustrations of family members, you know, it’s all part of the journey, but it’s just the house. The soul is, is far deeper.

Ellen Shilling  34:12

So that connection allows you to, so meditation is the avenue to allow you to connect to that part of you. And what does that give you then as you say, sorry, you mentioned some things already, but is it a one word that you can distil that down to? Is a connection within or is it a feeling that allows you then?

Dani Sheil  34:33

It’s a good question, what is the word? That’s one word? Okay, maybe it’s connection. Maybe it’s connection? I guess when we get caught up in our own heads, we can become a bit selfish and we’re racing around our own heads in other words when you come into your body and you find that soul connection you realise, like everything. If I wake up, for example, I’m in a really bad mood mentally and my house is in a bad mood, my house is going to affect my two sons, my husband and it will probably affect my dog. It will definitely affect everything. Whereas if my house can calm down and just feel that connection with everything else it’s a far easier place to live from.

Ellen Shilling  35:26

So, there’s a lot less debris, from our fallout from that connection from that lack of connection, obviously. And that seems to be a theme that’s coming out during our conversation, I suppose from when we first connected and you were talking about in groups, when people connect, how they can drop the labels and how they can find themselves free from the roles and responsibilities that they hold, and that for meditation you for you is that soul connection as well.

Dani Sheil  35:57

And a sense of belonging. I mean, you know, it’s one of the basic human needs, isn’t it to feel a sense of belonging?

Ellen Shilling  36:07

You know that you’re not alone?

Dani Sheil  36:08

Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s really, you and I, which was so great. No, this is my truth but this is where you and I, when we met, we were similar. We did have that, you know, we had a glass of wine with dinner. We like our red meat. We also like spiritual practices. We like the trainings; we like the teachings we like learning. You know, there’s people for everyone. And it’s that sense of belonging that sense of oh Ellens’  like me – Oh, that’s okay. I’m not on my own, you know?

Ellen Shilling  36:37

And that gives permission, do you think in a way. That brings connection.

Dani Sheil  36:43

Yeah, but also to the people around us. I mean, I know JP is like Charlie, they don’t….they’re not big levitators!

Ellen Shilling  36:56

After a few Guinness!

Dani Sheil  36:59

But they have to, I mean, like, I’m sure they’ve picked up a few practices from being around us over the years

Ellen Shilling  37:05

And you know, it’s sometimes it’s funny, I hear him talking. And I’m like, Oh, okay. You’re actually you’re you are listening? And do you know what it’s so funny, because I always had this thing growing up, that I was going to, and especially the more I got into the spiritual world, or, you know, the wellness and mental health and going on a different path, I always thought that I was going to have to be with somebody who was similar to me, who had the same practices as me. Again, it was another label. Again, it was another myth. It was another idea of, oh, we’re going to, you know, my first mindfulness course I did it, because I fancied the guy that was going to the class and I, that’s how I started mindfulness. It wasn’t from any research it wasn’t from so this is going to help me with, you know, my mental health. No, no, I fancied him. And I thought that if I went to the class with him, we would fall into mindfulness, love, we would get married barefoot. In the forest, we will live happily, mindfully peaceful peace out. Now, the fact that I was never going to be that type of girl is completely irrelevant, but we didn’t fall in love. But I always had this perception that that’s the way it was going to be. And then I met JP and he couldn’t be further but yet, it’s similar. It’s similar values. But actually, it’s funny because he holds the yin to my Yang, and I hold the Yang to being and he holds me as the divine masculine, to allow me and really supports me to do this kind of work. And he really contains that, in a way he probably doesn’t even know what he’s doing. And I think Charlie is the same as well, isn’t he? Like they’re our biggest champions? Absolutely. Yeah, no, totally. And he was the one who got me started on the podcast, because he was like, Ellen, you love to talk. He’s like, if you talk to somebody else, you might talk less to me.

Ellen Shilling  37:06

But I always think everyone’s like your voice is so lovely

Ellen Shilling  38:56

So, is that like that for you?

Dani Sheil  38:58

I mean, when we met first, you know, we did a hotel management. And as you can imagine, a lot of booze. You know, I love my friends I do. The crack is mighty, and there’s an awful lot of alcohol consumed. And, and so I didn’t think he’d ever when I started doing it, he was great. We’re in the States. And he supported me financially, which was brilliant. It was before we were married. And he supported me with that. But then since then, like I attuned him to Reiki so he does have level one. He does a bit of Reiki on himself. And then of course, he’s gone on to do different coaching courses in life, he did an MSc in business, and that came up in that. So, it’s funny when I hear him telling me do you know Dani, when you sit down and really Charlie – yes, he starts coaching, and starts telling me all of these mindfulness practices and I’m like, oh, did you learn that from now Charlie? And he’d say oh yeah ok! And I’d be trying to say this to him over 15 years.

Ellen Shilling  40:01

That’s family isn’t that therefore makes sense. Exactly. I think that’s that is families all over the world is not like we’re constantly saying one thing and then somebody else says it and suddenly they’re listening

Dani Sheil  40:16

And then the two boys are totally like, I mean the older fella, you know, he just stretches. So, they’re both into sports the older fellas into football and Jamie’s rugby but he just stretches so he does all these Can you give me a stretch for this

Ellen Shilling  40:28

Oh, of course a yoga pose

Dani Sheil  40:30

No not yoga

Ellen Shilling  40:31

Ok it’s not called Yoga; it’s not allowed to be called yoga. So, there’s still some sort of stereotype around is that it

Dani Sheil  40:37

There must be Yeah, I mean, even though Ryan Giggs is doing it. He, ya know, I don’t know if he’s pulled out of it now, but now he’s 19. But then, and then the other fellas doing rugby and he’s saying by the time he gets kind of gets to Sixth year, he said, he’s going to, when he’s on the sixth-year squad. He’s going to get them to  do mindfulness before their match, you know, so he’s a lot more. But I would have done mindfulness with him in school in primary school. He’s been witness to a lot more than the older boy has.

Ellen Shilling  41:06

And you see a difference then, in how they manage themselves? But I have to say they have very different personalities anyway, wouldn’t they but, but with Jamie – What has the mindfulness done for him?

Dani Sheil  41:17

To be honest with you? I think it’s just he’s had awareness of it. I don’t know if it’s actually changed, his demeanor. He is a lot calmer and steadier. Adam is probably a little bit more like me, you know? Whereas Jamie’s a bit mor calm,

Dani Sheil  41:32

Would you believe it? I’m a yoga teacher. And I’m not I mean (do you get this as well?)  You must never scream!

Ellen Shilling  41:41

There’s no stress in your house, Ellen. No, no, sorry. You never get angry. But yeah, another myth of a yoga & mindfulness teacher, we are human first

Dani Sheil  41:56

So no, I think like the programmes like mindfulness in schools, and things like that for the kids, which I did. I did that mindless in school project. Yeah, remember that? And I really enjoyed it. And I think for a lot of them, it’s not necessarily they’re going to use it yet. But they will be aware of it. So, when they move into the adult world, you know, I mean, it’s in Google, I’d say, you know, yeah, most companies now. So, they’ll, they’ll be able to attach into it far quicker. You know, I mean, I would adore to see if they were doing a little bit of practice before exams.

Ellen Shilling  42:27

Oh, it would be such a useful tool, isn’t it and the scientific research is there now as well

Dani Sheil  42:34

Yeah, surely.

Ellen Shilling  42:36

Yeah. It’s not quite cottoned on yet (companies) They are still a bit “all talk”, but not that much action around it

Dani Sheil  42:42

And I do remember, years ago, somebody was calling Adam and I was meditating and somebody called Adam to see if he wanted to go for a playdate. And afterwards, I was talking to the mom, and she said, I have never in my life heard a child say, can I get back to you my mother’s meditating!

Dani Sheil  42:56

So, she thought this was hilarious. And I was like, well, at least you didn’t interrupt me.

Ellen Shilling  43:01

Yeah, to have the respect for that, obviously.

Ellen Shilling  43:13

So, letting go. I just want to come back to this because we started off talking about it by doing all the things that we’re doing, doing, doing and our day is full of that. Chasing and striving and pushing and forcing and you know, all this conditioning that we have there, our life needs to look like. We’ve been talking a lot about letting go and kind of the authenticity as well.

Ellen Shilling  43:38

Have you any tips for anybody to help them? If so, anybody who’s listening now, who kind of wants to start on that path? Of course, go to Dani’s yoga classes. She does retreats in Greece, and Iceland, and an Ireland day and weekend ones as well. And Ibiza – oh  I’d love to go on that one.

Dani Sheil  44:01

I think again, make it as easy as you can for yourself, you know, I mean, I try you know, this whole get up early in the morning. So, I was getting up and putting my clothes on,  brush my teeth, sit down meditate. So now what I actually do is I get up, I put on my meditation and I lie in bed and I do it. You know, I do want to those lying down like a Nidra. But it’s more alignments, meditation and things like that. So, make it easy for yourself, do something at the start of your day, whether it’s a walk or a jog or a meditation practice or something that nourishes and nurtures you,  do that first. And then what I’m trying to do now is I give myself one or two things to do, even though I’m trying to get rid of my to do list so one might be walking the dog. Or it might be I don’t know, sending out an email or something, but just do one or two but just do one or two and have only one or two things in the list and have your list but just syphoned off day by day, just, this is what I’m trying to do for me for the summer, just so

Ellen Shilling  45:08

Fabulous. I thought that was brilliant. Yeah, just the simplicity of bringing presence to the boiling of a kettle, not being on your phone while the kettle is on, not emptying the dishwasher. When the kettle is on not hoovering, not doing anything else but just breathing, sitting, looking out at the garden. What do I see? Feel? Hear taste smell? three deep breaths. And there’s her mindfulness practice, and she got to do that every day. Because every day she put on the Kettle. I thought that was brilliant. I love it. Because it can be that simple.

Ellen Shilling  45:08

So, it’s quality rather than quantity and bringing presence to what you’re doing. Exactly, exactly. I heard a great thing on a podcast the other day about a woman who was trying to find time for meditation. And she was asking somebody, how do I find time? How do I find time? And you know, the answer was that you don’t need to find the 20 30 40 minutes. But where in your day, can you find time? And this woman was like, I can’t find any time. There’s no way I can do it. So, the teacher was saying, okay, grand. The following week, that same person came back to the class and said, “the boiling of my kettle”. And she was like, what do you mean the boiling of my kettle, she said I have four minutes there so when the kettle is boiling, I can just breathe.

Dani Sheil  46:19

Yeah, totally. And the other one is driving your car. You know, subconscious drives the car. Can you bring your conscious into it? And then you know, feel the car steering wheel. You know what’s happening the legs? Yeah, no, it is it’s making it as simple and as, as attainable as you possibly can. I think the breath out is good. So, a lot of you know that big breath in, hold your breath. And then the really long exhale out through the mouth. When we inhale, we activate the sympathetic nervous system, which is a fight flight, it’s just a little bit of a, you know, it’s not running from the Sabre-toothed Tiger, but it’s a little bit of a, of a kick to your sympathetic. When we exhale, it’s the parasympathetic. So, when you exhale longer, you’re activating your rest and digest.

Dani Sheil  47:06

So, I always do this thing in companies –  counting the length of your in breath, counting the length of your out breath. And most people have a longer in breath than out breath. So, it’s like if you’re putting air into a balloon, there’s more and more air going in, than coming out. And eventually that puts you into that state of flight, fight or freeze. Are you saying then by having a shorter out breath, the rest and digest part of our system, and our parasympathetic nervous system isn’t getting a chance to kind of kick in?

Dani Sheil  47:37

Yeah you need a longer exhale to let the rest and digest work. Like we need, we need stress, you know, you’re not going to get up with your alarm going off if you didn’t cope with stress, we need stress, we need that kick with the inhale. Because to activate it, but it’s, you know, obviously, this is very mild. This is not, you know, a fright or a shock. But when you exhale longer, you can even feel it when you breathe out the shoulders drop. If you can bring your attention to your shoulders, your back, you feel that ahhhhhhhhh

Ellen Shilling  48:06

you’ve let go, you let go something Yeah.

Dani Sheil  48:10

And a few times a day, just even doing those two or three times, you know, before you bring yourself to attention, something it’s like, it’s like anything when you approach something calmer when you breathe – it’s clearer, when you’re stressed sometimes the words even get muddled up on the on the pages, you know,

Ellen Shilling  48:28

Your perception is different as well isn’t it as you’re looking out with the eyes of stress. You take some breaths,

Dani Sheil  48:33

and then if you’re thinking emotionally, we all know we hold it in our body. You know, when you let go. You’re letting it go. So emotionally, you’re letting it go. You’re letting go in the muscles, you’re letting you know. So, a few good exhales during the day. Always a good thing to do. Limit caffeine. Caffeine, I love coffee. So hard to do. But limit caffeine because it definitely will not only as a dehydrating but yeah, not saying Give it up. Because I don’t like fitness. But I couldn’t if I had five. I mean, I remember the days running around. Oh my God in that restaurant in New York and Manhattan. 700-seater restaurant. It was huge. I must have had 15 cups of coffee in the day. I was like, yeah, it’s just and cigarettes.

Ellen Shilling  49:22

Were you a smoker too? I never knew.

Dani Sheil  49:25

Yeah. Well, you weren’t as committed as I was. Well, I was on Marlboro red in Germany when I lived there

Ellen Shilling  49:33

Oh, my God, even I couldn’t go on the Marlboro red, they were the strongest of the strong.

Dani Sheil  49:38

I gave up twice. Obviously the second time worked, thankfully.

Ellen Shilling  49:44

And what was it that allowed you to give up the second time.

Dani Sheil  49:50

I think the second time; the first time I wasn’t doing yoga, and I gave up and then I had one. And then the second time I was doing my teacher training. I guess it was a) that was isn’t in alignment with what I want to do and b), does obviously, in yoga teacher training, there’s an awful lot of focus on breathing. And you realise then actually what am I doing!

Ellen Shilling  50:14

There’s the breath again was it like it was bringing it back to your body. It’s bringing you back to your body to feel what it was doing to your body. Yeah, yeah. Because we do so many things on automatic pilot don’t mean like, smoking is one of those things that I used to do on automatic pilot. And I do loads of things in automatic pilot. But when you’re when you’re with your breath, and you do that 10,000 times a day, when you’re really worth your breath. You’re coming home to your body, and you’re really noticing what’s there. Yeah,

Dani Sheil  50:44

I mean, if you logically like every smoker knows it’s not good for them.

Ellen Shilling  50:48

Yeah, you get the guilt? Isn’t that just makes you reach for more cigarettes? Of course it does.

Dani Sheil  50:53

So yeah, I think the breath really good. Also make things simple for yourself. Yeah, my own Retreat or your Retreats to Mullranny, I mean treat yourself to something like that. Because when you do that, it really helps to realign you, again, I think, you know,

Ellen Shilling  51:09

Taking yourself out of the environment isn’t it, like taking yourself out of your day to day and going somewhere free of phones free of distractions. Or getting on a plane and going on one of your retreats. Getting away isn’t it, and giving yourself that time and space so that you can reflect.

Ellen Shilling  51:26

Um, it’s hard, isn’t it because it is addictive. And it’s the same, I read a book about phones. And they were saying that it’s the same technology that used in the, in the slots machines in Vegas, that dopamine hit. If you look at your phone, you might get something that you want to see, you might win the jackpot, and something good will be there or might not. So, it’s that 50:50 chance or less than 505:0 chance that something good is going to be there is what keeps keeps us reaching for it.

Dani Sheil  51:26

Totally, yes, go and sit down on the beach for a couple of hours. Yeah, you know, bring a book if you want, but if not just be. And those phones are so bad. I mean, hands up, you know, being authentic – hands up, you know, I really need to focus on keeping my phone out of my hand.

Dani Sheil  52:17

Or not even – I’ve all my notifications off, except for my message and my telephone. Because if I see one or two, it doesn’t look right on the screen. So, I have to go into knock it off. Like whether it’s Facebook or Instagram. So, you know, it’s like, psychologically, it’s there to distract you and pull you out of yourself, you know? So yeah, if you can put your phone away For a bit.

Ellen Shilling  52:44

I always have two questions at the end of a podcast. And the first one is just because it’s the soul secrets with Ellen podcast. And this isn’t about you know, life is rosy, everything’s wonderful –  life is full of unicorns and pink fluffy clouds and all of that. Because life is adversity and shit happens. And, you know, unfortunately, we have to deal with all of that but…… so this podcast isn’t about all happy things. It is about you know, the diversity people have been through and what they’ve learned from that. But I always like to ask people what makes your soul smile? Not what makes you happy. But what makes your soul smile? Is there a moment?

Dani Sheil  53:29

I think I and again, not trying to keep going on about the retreats or anything, but I love seeing,  whether it’s a weekend or day – that you’re seeing someone come in with the weight of the world on their shoulders, and that when they leave they’re like wrinkles are gone from the face, I mean not everyone but seeing that the lightness yeah, that definitely. And the friendships that are gained. I love actually I love when women are supporting women. Oh my god, I love it. It’s just amazing whether I’m involved or I’m on the exterior looking in, because we are profound. We are amazing. When we support each other. Yeah, we can be pretty brutal when we’re not. Unfortunately, and we’ve all been witness to that at different stages in our lives. That makes my soul smile – when I see women reaching out supporting each other.

Ellen Shilling  54:29

That’s a wonderful answer. My second question, which comes from a playlist that I’m creating from all of my guests on and soul seekers podcast, is a dance track that I’m creating, like, full of songs that make people dance. So, do you have a song that comes to mind? I know I’m putting you on the spot because I didn’t pre warn you about these questions at all. Is there a song like that and I know you like to dance. To dance. Is there a song that gets you on the dance floor?

Ellen Shilling  55:00

Oh my god. Insomnia.

Ellen Shilling  55:02

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Faithless yeah that is a brilliant son, now I understand even more why we’re friends because I have an obsession with faithless I absolutely love them they’re brilliant.

Dani Sheil  55:19

Yeah it is definitely it’s a song that’ll get me up much to the embarrassment of my kids.

Ellen Shilling  55:26

You’ll have to play it tonight. Dani Sheil, thank you so much for being on the podcast and being in the big blue chair today. I hope you enjoyed it.

Dani Sheil  55:34

Sure did. Thank you so much, Ellen, this was fabulous. I really enjoyed it. Thank you