The Soul seekers with Ellen Podcast

Ellen Shilling 0:02
Okay, welcome everybody to the soul seekers with Ellen Podcast. Today I am talking to gorgeous Caroline Meade of it’s time for me. And I have wanted Caroline on this podcast since the very beginning because I follow her and have done for many years. I think we met about 10 years ago, if not more, and our paths have crossed every so often over the years. But I always loved all your sharings on online on the stuff that I could make. These always felt that it was very heart based, very come from a lovely place. And there’s huge authenticity about what it is that you do. So thank you for coming on to the podcast today. Thank you for being in the big blue chair. Chair. Thank you very much, Caroline. Um, so I don’t know if you want to start with introducing yourself are saying a few words about how you came to be here. Not literally how you arrived here today. I know that was in your car. Like your journey to, to being to doing what you do.

Caroline Meade 1:06
Yeah, so I similar to yourself, has a corporate background worked at all, and always had an interest in wanting to help people. And when I worked in property property law, I realised I wasn’t really going to be able to do that the way that I wanted to. I have come from a family where my granny on my mom’s side worked with energies and with Tarot and was counsellor and just did a lot of aromatherapy, a lot of work with oils and different things of that. So I’d always grown up around a different way, like alternative therapies. And when she died, she left me her tarot cards, and I just picked them up and actually just started to read with them. And at this stage was driven by no exams, and my sister exams, everything but I was starting to fall out of love with all of that. And this kind of arrived while it was falling out of love with that never knew how to read. And I went to a medium. And he said, just put the books away and just read are just supposed to read. And I didn’t know what that meant. But that is just what I did and kind of went from there. But very soon after reading for people, I felt that I wanted to help them on a deeper level, because readings and things arranged in moments through an upgrade for telling you how everyday your whole year is going to be. And actually, as the years have evolved, I would have found that while I still enjoyed them for readings, it was actually kind of just empowering people a little bit because they were placing their faith in me, or spirit, actually spiritual thinking was me, you know. And I was finding that people actually needed support on a longer basis, like a much, much longer races, and to build up their own resilience on their coping strategies and come back into remembering the depth of themselves. Because our intuition is so much stronger than anyone elses can be. We just don’t know how to use those because they’ve never been taught. And even people would think I’m really intuitive. And I am for others because I’m not necessarily myself. Because I’m not in their space, and I’m not in their life or in their head. I’m in mine. So I created it’s time for me back at the end of 2016 where I knew that I used to always send people like little meditations or recommendations for classes, I Dorner books that I’d read. And then I would sink in, why don’t you just put this all together? It’s evolved massively like, you know, when it first started, I really didn’t know what he was doing. And just kind of wanted to everyone to experience a bit of like time for themselves. But that was originally what it was for, have some time for yourself and do these things. And then very quickly, it was realising people don’t have a lot of time. People don’t know how to make time. And also, people want to receive guidance and support but not necessarily know how to really deal with that, or how to integrate that into their life. So over the last number of years in my own path and different difficult things that have happened to me, I recognised for me to be able to help people really have to empower them to hear their sounds themselves. So to get back to the core of who they are. So that’s really what it started for me has been Coronavirus, it’s topics and it’s meditations classes and all these content pieces but the four of it is really how can I help people to get back to remember that they are more powerful than they actually like realise I’m not to think that and we all do it I’ve done it many times. Every support that you get from somebody else is amazing whether it’s sessions like with yourself with true your membership, different things that you’re doing, but we fundamentally have to come back to be able to do this for yourself. You know, Wow. Amazing. Yeah,

Ellen Shilling 4:57
yeah, that’s so true. We give away our power all that time don’t wait every day, you know, through social media through going to tarot readers. You know, I’ve heard a lot of people over the years, say to me, I went to the tarot reader, because I needed to know how that relationship went. And I say, Me too, you know, a long time to go my 20s I was like, I need to, you know, the tarot card reader is going to tell me what to do or what’s going to happen. And, you know, we’re in that place of vulnerability that, as you say, we don’t know how to trust ourselves. We don’t know how to go into intuition, because I had seen so much yeah, so to be able to teach people how to awaken that within them. Yeah, and

Caroline Meade 5:36
it’s not an easy thing to do. Because I, everyone’s coming from things from a different place, like, our life experiences are completely different. And our day to day is different. Our mental health is different, like there’s so many layers to it, it’s not a one size fits all, for any of this stuff. So, you know, like, even in my membership, I now have like personalised if you want classes, student classes, if you want that, you know, they can pick what they want. Because even how we learn is different. Some people like to listen, some people like to watch some people like to read. So how can you? You know, really, oh, really? Only over the last year, I’ve been like, Hey, can I just make this more personal for the person? Because I’m trying to get the person to empower themselves? Yes. So even with the content, they’re gonna take the content in, it has to be connected to what’s going to work for them. Because we hear so much now, do this, do that, read this book, go to this person, see this thing or whatever. And we do all of that. And I am so guilty of all of those things I said, similar to what you said, I’ve spent my 20s and 30s doing that. And probably only last year was like, come on, like I can. So now I can still do those things. But with the understanding Derrick, support, to like in a healing session, the healer is facilitating your ability to let your body drop down your ability to open yourself up to the spiritual energy. They’re not actually healing you. Yes. And I think we’ve lost the understanding of that, because things have got so trendy, Instagram, it’s like we’ve, everyone’s an astrologer, and I went to, like a heat or, you know, like I talked about full moons, new moons, I never never knew about any of that stuff. But I would go into like research and everything. But it’s and it’s becoming so quick. There’s a feeling of like, it doesn’t have to work. Nausea does not work. Like, we just need to really come back. It’s so similar to going back to ourselves, we need to come back to understand the supports are needed, very needed. Probably more needed now than ever. But they’re not going to fix you. You know, they’re not there, they’re going to support you, and facilitate you to do that. To not even fix fix, as long as none of us actually need to be fixed, by the way to facilitate you to feel recording yourself. That’s literally all anybody wants to feel. Yeah. And I hope and it’s time for me. That time the women feel.

Ellen 8:02
Yeah, yeah. And what has been your biggest learning from starting the membership in your own life? What has what has it brought you in your own understanding of your path and as a healer as well, because, you know, we were talking before the podcast of how we bought an expectation on ourselves and people that we work in this field and other people they expectation on us that our lives are perfect. You know, so many people say to me, Oh, you must never get stressed, never get angry. Like, better ask me husband.

Caroline 8:34
What I say to my husband, oh they think my voice is really soft and really calm. He’s like, they should come live with us. And this is not like it’s not like that at all. Yeah, people used to say to me, you’re, just so relaxed all the time. And I am like an over thinker. I get panicky, overwhelmed, fearful. And I’m like, no, like, I’m really not any of those things. Um, people put a perception of you, of what they feel they think you are onto you. And no, like, I can be very grumpy and I can be judgmental, and I like all of the things that everybody else is like, because we’re human, we’re human. So I think for me, when I started its time for me, in the name like it started for me, it was all about helping women to have time for themselves. And as I went through, so that was 2016. I was going through a lot of difficulties in my own life at the time, my dad had become very unwell. And unlike, you know, I feel a decision theory like a story I reem off, because it became just such a part of everyday is my dad did very well he was caring for him he had vascular dementia. That was very tough. And in the midst of that, then I wasn’t able to get pregnant, and I was finding that very stressful. And then I was teaching all these women how to, you know, hear their intuition and listen to themselves and support themselves and be positive and all these things and I just remember being like, I’m not doing anything that I’m teaching. I’m trying really trying to get I think this is the part as we all really try, because we all want to feel good. But then there was a piece of I know better, like I’ve trained in this, I’ve taught people. So I should be able to fix myself, make things happen, get pregnant, not be stressed that my dad needs, like so much care, you know, whatever, I wasn’t able to do that. So I was burning out and having like this horrendous kind of existence in my life. At that time, it did really feel like I was literally just getting up everyday and rolling through things. And then trying to support these women to move forward in their life that I just thought something has to change here for myself. But also, as a teacher, whatever you want to call me at the time, I can’t I can’t do this. So how can I tap into my own stuff, and then share that. And that’s actually what changed and started when I started sharing what was going on for me in ways to say, look, I’m here at this position, whatever you think people are coming here for whatever, but I’m actually going through really, really difficult stuff. This is what I’m doing to try help myself. So I think that really changed the course of its time for me. Because people could now relate to what I was talking about.

Ellen Shilling 11:13
Yeah. How was that for you to be sharing on that level? Because, yeah, again, it’s taking down those boundaries, and being vulnerable.

Caroline Meade 11:20
Yeah, I would share probably the story, I wouldn’t know if I even now would get into it like –  Oh, my God, I’m having an awful day. Because the end of the day, people are there too,

Ellen Shilling 11:31
for you to support them. So you’re not going to be turning up in tears, I know exactly.

Caroline11:35
Yeah I’ve had a really bad day, how are you, yeah, I definitely just have to be more vulnerable to say, look, this is what’s going on for me, and I get it, like I get where you’re at, I get the time piece because like, I have no time. I get the stress, I understand everything. And then I think when, particularly when I wasn’t getting pregnant, and was trying to pull on all these resources, of going to 20 million people about that and tried to tap into meditate and visualise the baby and tell my body, it’s all fine, and then try to be really calm in the middle of it. And then you’re just going around in a loop that I eventually just thought to myself, there just has to be a different way here. And then that’s kind of that’s pushed me into being a better person, I think. And that’s why for me helping people on a deeper level. But also it’s actually really helped me. So while I was showing up for people was ultimately helping me. Yeah,

Ellen 12:33
how was it helping you? Is it really showing up for yourself?

Caroline 12:36
And yeah, because I was like, I can’t teach people to show up for themselves if I’m not actually doing the same thing. Yeah, like, I can’t teach something I am not doing as much as I was trying I had to take it to a whole other level

Ellen 12:47
Yeah. And do you think that that, where did that come from that, you know, pressure, I suppose, of putting on yourself to juggle all these balls in the air and then turn up and be in a calm space? For all these people,

Caroline 13:02
I think it was that I think that I really care about the work that I do. And I thought I can’t actually do the work that I do if I’m burnt out because I physically I’m not showing up. Mentally, I’m not like very present. And it felt really inauthentic. You know, but also, I think that it allows you to have more understanding for who you’re actually trying to help. Because the circumstances you’re dealing with, you know, that other people are dealing with or version of it might be somebody trying to get pregnant or their Dad being sick. But it could be like a huge relationship issue or work issue or whatever they’re going through, or they’re just simply not in a good place. So my understanding and depth of understanding became stronger, I’d always had a strong understanding of people intuitively, you know, in presence with one person, but this is a group of people that I most like don’t even know I’ve never met. So how could I bring my own self into a deeper space to go what’s going on here? Like in me? And then how can we help other people do the same thing?

Ellen 14:08
Yeah. And I think what you’re talking about is relatable to so many women isnt it because as you say it might not be fertility, it might not be a dad, that’s that’s ill with something pretty horrific, like you Dementia. And it could be that they’re looking after the kids, they’re running the home, they’re taking the job, they’re they’re putting the pressure on themselves to be a size 10 or, you know, and last week, or the last post podcast episode, Anna shared a quote of “you can do, you can do anything but you can’t do everything.”

Speaker 2 14:37
Yeah. And that’s it. And I think we’re living in a world now that’s so fast. You know, when I was thinking about coming here today, it was like, we’re just in a world where we’re told do this you can have that. So follow a spiritual path. You’re going to have a happy life. Put in X amount of work, you’re going to get this result. And people are expecting everything now. Now, now, now, now. And I find the anger levels with people. And the frustration levels with people are through the roof, even more than they would have been five years. Yeah, really bad right now. And even in my little insight into not being able to have a child or whatever, that’s a whole other area that is full of that. And even that kind of stuff, it’s like, we’re not always going to get what we want, like, and I think you have to really dig deep as well for that to say, Okay, I might want this I don’t understand and maybe I’m never going to be privy to why on a higher levels and things are happening for me, I have to believe I’m being protected on some way. But it’s like when people want to help themselves or support themselves. And like you just said, with the other lady you had on, you cannot do everything, you cannot have everything. And it’s actually okay. Because the pressure to you’re putting yourself under to do everything to have everything is taking you so far out of herself. It will take a long time to get back to yourself if you ever do.

Ellen  15:57
Yeah, can I hear an amen? Yeah. I totally agree with you. And I’m nodding my head here and you’re talking because because I experienced it myself. And my own work is like, you know, putting out the intention at the new moon and it should be manifested by the full moon, you know, if you work with the lunar cycles, it is this instant manifestation kind of expectation that we have. It’s not about the long haul. And there is that frustration that comes with it. And I love, love, love what you said earlier about, you know, if you have a spiritual life, you’ll have a happy life. And I’ve never heard such be-one-sh-one-t as my mother would say and people come to me and have done for years, I’m doing this 17 years and doing it really all my life going “Oh if I just meditate everyday, my life will just flow” and I’m like, what No, I’m sorry. I’m sorry, the spiritual path can bring you to your knees. Yeah. But you will have, like you mentioned earlier the supports in place that might actually help you. Because you’re not sticking your head in the sand here. You know, on the spiritual path, you’re taking your head out of the sand, you’re not just swimming along with the crowd, you are dealing with stuff, you’re turning on your light, you’re you’re being your most authentic self. And that can be the hardest thing in the world when everybody else around you is doing something else.

Speaker 2 17:16
Yeah. And I think as well, spirituality has become about the, and I do these things by the way, when I say this, the intentions on the new moon, I do all these things. But it’s become about the tools, the cards, the crystals, the intentions, the planetary transits, which are all relevant. But these are ancient sacred rituals and tools. They are not sacred when you’re watching them on Instagram, and somebody well, but also, that’s what we’ve we’ve lost over like, we’re doing all of these things, because we’re told that and but spirituality is a connection between you and spirit, you don’t need any tool- nothing. And it’s one of the reasons I stopped actually being reader because I was like, I can help but I understand in reading of doors give somebody a lift, and then they walk away and then what? That lift might last for an hour, two days, three days max, that’s it done back down to my normal reality. Because the hope of something, even if we have a session or something we leave feeling lifted, because we’ve been minded and we’ve been given space to be listened to and heard and supported. And maybe rest you know, if somebody’s having healing session works, you might get them to sleep, they’re not sleeping, if they’re a busy mother, you know, person, whatever. And what we have to do is to use those tools to facilitate when we’re not in those spaces, how do I make that space for myself? And the tools aren’t gonna make me happy spirituality isn’t gonna make me happy because like you said, Actually, if you really want to go down that road, get ready for it because it’s, there’s a lot that’s gonna happen. And like you said, it can bring you to your knees, which I definitely have been there for them. Okay, yes,

Ellen  18:59
me too. Me too. But I think in doing that, in being brought to your knees like that, I’ve shared publicly, you know openly about my journey with depression. But it also was the best thing that ever happened to me because it gave me a depth of empathy. And so I can sit with people who are in pain, and I am not afraid. And because I because I’ve been there, I know your pain. I know you’re suffering. And I’m here and I’m not physically holding you, but I’m holding you because I’m not uncomfortable in that space and to be heard and to be listened to like that is truly healing for people isn’t it

Speaker 2 19:34
Yes, huge and coming in with your clients with that empathy is massively helpful on such a continuous level as in, they can take “I was heard today” and that could do so much good for them? For six months, a year, whatever. Because of the space looks there.

Ellen  19:52
Yeah, rather than a tool or something that was given to them. Yeah, that’s disempowered. Yeah. You mentioned earlier about spirit – what is or who is spirit to you?

Speaker 2 20:03
I think spirit is, like if I think of like my higher self or myself, I see it as something separate to myself. Because like, I believe we’re just in the body and then so I think the soul and spirit is part of source energy. So whether you believe that’s God or angels or the sky or whatever. I think it’s piece of that, I think it comes from that. And I think that, you know, it’s always around like a kind of sometimes I think we have a very limited understanding of it, because we’ll never fully be able to comprehend how amazing or deep or magical that energy is, I think when we talk about the manifestation pieces, and those that magic stuff, because that’s actually the depth of our soul, it could do anything probably right now. But when we’re not in ourselves, I think we can’t connect to the soul, we can’t connect to the spirit above or the source of spirit or our own spirit. Like, for example, like we talked about signs, okay, I was just talking about this in class last week, and I used to do the thing of, “if I see a yellow rose on the way to such and such, I’m gonna, like, get my new car” or whatever, right? I mean, I used to do this, go to the IVF clinic. “If I go to the IVF clinic, today”, I’ll be driving down, if I go now “and I see a blue butterfly or a white butterfly on the way, I’m gonna get great news”, or like there’ll be like 20 roses or whatever it was gonna be at the time. And then it get there and it wouldn’t happen, and I’d be like “but I saaw a yellow flower on the way or a blue flower or whatever. So we we again, we go out of ourselves for the signs and Spirit gives us signs that we most of the time don’t see because we’re putting what our human brain wants on it. And also, we think spirit gives us signs, probably all the time. But we can’t see them or feel them. But the ones that are really meant are going to be very, very rare.

Ellen  22:02
There’s a great story of the client, mine tells me and I say it all the time, but it’s just brilliant. And it’s from a film called The Man with two brains. I don’t know if you know, Steve Martin, it’s years old. And yeah, it’s one of those really corny films, but his wife has died, and he wants to marry this new woman. And he has the portrait of the first wife on the wall, and he’s standing in front of the portrait. And he has his hands up to her and said, I need your permission to marry the second woman, I just I need you to send me a sign that it’s okay for me to marry her. And any sign, any sign will do. And if you don’t want me to marry her, that’s okay. I won’t marry her. But I just need your blessing. And next minute then the thunder and lightning starts the doors start banging the rains come down. There’s things falling off the wall, there’s candles being blown out. And it cuts back to him going. “Just any sign just give me any sign”. Yeah, he couldn’t see. Because it wasn’t coming from the place that he wanted it to portray, it was all random. I just think that’s such a great story to show how we are with we’re just looking for signs all the time, as you say outside of ourselves, but not actually seeing the signs

Speaker 2 23:18
We are looking for defined signs, we think its a sign, and then it’s not or like things happen. And then you do you do go through those moments. Like when I I’ve had a few things recently were very specific things have happened. And I’m like, Oh, wow, that’s a sign. And those moments I go: this because you do question like I do questions. And most oh gosh, like, is this actually all real? Is this just like a figment of my imagination, what I would feel of a spirit or intuition and be certain things. And then you got a massive walloping sign, like a positive sign or whatever. And you’ll know it, you’ll never know what the sign was. Yeah, you know. So I think we spend and I say this stuff to myself as well, if I tried to define what those signs are going to be. I’m missing the actual ones that are probably shown up, which is, I think we just its to human nature. We are more like our minds want to understand, we want facts, we want something tangible in front of us. And I totally get that because I’m such an over thinker, so I’m always really trying to rationalise things and isn’t this isn’t like criticism, or anything, because I do all of these things myself. It’s just in and we talk about flow, I do meditation or flow. Or you could do meditation was sitting there and actually quite a bit more stressed. Which I’ve done because I’d be like, I can’t meditate today or whatever and then I leave it feeling irritated with myself that I can’t do something. So I think it’s just a piece of how you come back out of your head and into your body. You know, in your body your intuitive voice you like you know it, we just have to give ourself maybe the hour it might take to feel it. Like anyone even listening now if they were to close their eyes and sit down and ask themselves where in the body they feel their intuition they’ll know in an instinct because you do know. So the battle for all of us is how do we listen to our intuition and not listen to the head, but I think it’s your body, your body’s gonna tell you. Your body will scream at you shout at you, or whatever. And it’s funny, because through my path of trying to get pregnant, and all of that I couldn’t have been more taken out of my body in that process, and lost the power of my own voice, you know, in, in dealing with the medical side of things. Being panicked about age being panicked about egg levels, and all these things, and was so detached from my body, you know, in a time actually, to conceive. I mean, you really would have to be in your body. And I really wasn’t in any probably part of the whole time of it.

Ellen Shilling 25:52
Really, and how did you? How long did you go through that process for?

Speaker 2 25:57
So I started trying to conceive about 2014. So it’s like nine years ago, and I always had like, hormone issues and stuff. So I knew probably it wasn’t going to be a straight path. I’d always known that maybe from a teenager like it probably wasn’t going to be straightforward, whether that was a preconceived thought, or I knew it’s wasnt gonna be easy,

Ellen 26:18
But you knew that you wanted children,

Speaker 2 26:19
I always wanted children, I always love children and being around children, I love like everything about children, I love them. And I grew up where my dad had my last brother when he was 50. So I was like, 18/19 I had like a little newborn brother like so I’d always been around kids and everything growing up and so yeah, so then I discovered I had like PCOS and a few different things. And I was told look lose weight and then you’ll get pregnant just another like myth around getting pregnant. So I went off and I wasn’t able to lose weight and actually was probably putting on more weight and that kind of went on for a while. And then rolled on like three years later, I still wasn’t getting pregnant and then again, talk about signs – A girl was coming to my house to do like chemical peels on my face, because I had started to get really bad acne in my mid to late 30s like really bad. And I wouldn’t go to a salon. So she would actually come to the house and do these. And she mentioned this lovely man who did not natural fertility, but he would give you medicine, but you wouldn’t go through the IVF process you would try and get pregnant yourself. So I went to him. And he was incredible. And he taught me about listening to my body because his own method was following your body for ovulation for all of this the signs and symptoms, your temperature everything, bringing all the power back in and now I haven’t been in the process so to me I was like okay, grand. Had to do like injections into my stomach and things of that for ovulation. But I had had surgery, I had my spleen removed when I was 23. And he was the first person, like I’ve been to a gynaecologist. I’ve been to GPS. But he was the first person that said to me your property covered in scar tissuem and that’s probably why you’re not getting pregnant. So I had laparoscopy surgery and they did find that my ovary and my fallopian tubes were actually wrapped in adhesions. So there was no possible way we could concieve. But in the midst of all that I was going through to loads of stress, I had all these stuff going with my dad before he had gotten unwell. So there was a lot of things happening. And I was one of those people always outside of myself, always looking for answers externally, really stressed not knowing how to do anything about it, burning out all of the time. And really detached for myself, like I was outside of myself all the time. And then went through that process. And then my dad became really unwell then. So this is probably much like that to say 2017 2018 2019. And I made the decision that this wasn’t working, we didn’t conceive after nothing was happening, actually, the medication stopped working and everything, but I do think it was my stress and then we rolled into 2020. And then we thought right, we’ll go down the road of IVF. And sure, that was just like, you know, probably pretty disastrous. But again, my body wasn’t responding to the medication. So I’d loads of eggs, loads of them. They just don’t really like coming out. Because like there was loads they just wouldn’t pop out even with stimulation medication, they wouldn’t like to join the party, they didn’t come out. So I went through months of doing all of the medications to get you to your egg retrieval and say like a day before egg retrieval it would get cancelled. So I did that back to back, but in the midst of that my dad died in the middle of it. And this is where I talk about intuition. I was like, you have to keep going. Oh, no, no, you gotta do it, this is a sign from spirit. Dad’s passed away, a baby wants to come in – the space has been made like all these nonsense things you tell yourself, I better keep going, I better like keep going don’t give up. So I did all these back to back like a think it was five of those that never got to egg retrieval. But I did all the 70 injections or whatever it is you do, and over the course of a couple of weeks, and I knew I was out of myself, I knew I was pushing my body, and my body was telling me you’re pushing me my body was like, we don’t want to go out, like we’re not giving you the eggs. And, or the follicles.

Ellen Shilling 30:29
In the midst of it, it’s must have been so hard to remain positive.

Caroline Meade 30:32
It was like, my dad was dying of COVID, he died of COVID. Like we weren’t able to get to see him when he died. You know, there was a lot, and, and so I’d all of that. And then because I was on this spiritual path, I was like, I should know how to handle this. I should know how to deal with my dad’s passing. Because despite the fact we weren’t able to be with him, I felt his passing. I actually thought he was gonna pass months before he actually got COVID. And I found that very comforting that he got COVID to be honest, because it took him of what he was dealing with which was horrendous. So I found a lot of peace around that. But yet, I didn’t stop and say I need time for me, I need to stop here for a minute. Because you just done this. I think for me, I’d spent a lot of my life with family and friends just doing things for everybody. So that’s just what I was used to doing. And that just continued. And then I got a different doctor who wanted to see what the hell was going on because this just wasn’t working. And he was only over from the UK for a few months. And he got me pregnant. Like I got I got eggs, embryos, like the whole works. Everything was so successful, got pregnant on my first official like IVF whole cycle, and the embryo split, it actually split into identical twins. So this was booked, the minute I got pregnant. I felt like something wasn’t 100% Right in my body and I couldn’t relax into it. Obviously at that time, we didn’t know it was twins. So we went to the clinic and they said there was a baby there. There was only one baby there. But there’s no heartbeat. So I was like okay, but my instant thought was what do I need to do now? What have I not cleared? What have I not healed? How have I not done enough work at this point on myself, like “Get it together” kind of thing. And then what transpired over the next month was really interesting because I went okay, just whatever you need to do do this, like I need to get over this – that was always my go to thing, right? Let’s just move on, we’ll move on, like, you know, I’ll deal with it. I’ll be fine. Whatever. I’ll meditate, I’ve been visualising, like do all the work, work, right? It’s fine. Everything has purpose, everything has a reason. And then I went to the Coombe hospital a few days later to see what way I was going. I wasn’t miscarrying myself. So like, it was tough – whether to use medication or not. And when I went to the hospital there was a second baby there and it had a heartbeat. And it hadn’t been there at these other scans. So that was the point of oh jesus because they actually got to see a baby with a heartbeat it was a very different experience. But that brought me into a really peaceful time. So they said the baby will probably die this week, went back the following week, the baby was still alive, went back the following week the baby was still alive and then the following week the baby was still alive and not growing still behind where the baby needed to be. And that was the most peaceful month I’ve ever had in my entire life because almost like – okay, you’re forcing me to stop, I wasn’t able to say “look I need to rest because it’s like your body’s carrying this and you don’t know what’s going to happen. And obviously they won’t give medication when there’s a heartbeat like we have to wait for this to happen. So I did, I had four weeks of pure peace, I really got to kind of tune into the baby’s energies and stuff decided I was going to do it at home took the medication, caught the sack you know like I could see the two little babies inside like but to me that was like fabulous it was such a lovely time and that’s a lot of where things changed for me because I remember thinking okay I had gone to counselling after it and I remember the girl said are you grieving your children or are you grieving your dad and I was like I’m not over even my dad I haven’t even – like we’re six months in and I haven’t even got to that point yet but it reaffirmed to me and going back to your question about spirit after al long waffle there. When that happened, I’m a believer in like, spirit babies and the souls that want to come in. And I believe that every little baby has a purpose like whether it comes in like fully as a child, whether you know it doesn’t or comes for short time or whatever it is, and to being like, well, you’ve done, you’ve had a purpose and your purpose was to get me to slow down, to stop, and to actually just really reevaluate what’s going on for me. Why can’t I sit with myself? Like, why do I have to do things for people all the time? All this different stuff. So it was, yeah, it was, it was quite an incredible time. And I came out of that. And I thought, okay, things have to massively change. Now, in saying that, because we talked about things being busy, my dad had passed away at that point, I wasn’t in that caring role anymore. So everything changed overnight. I went from having literally no time, no space for myself to not. And then my work also changed because I recognised there’s some people that are in whether it’s really busy with kids or work and everything, they’re never going to get out of that stressful time – I got out of it, it stopped. It just one day stopped. It doesn’t stop for everybody. Or can we make and stop? Is the question. Can we say – Enough is enough. And this goes back to what we’re working for, you know, I have friends, who are on that treadmill of wanting to succeed so much, which I get like I do it myself. And we do these things? Or need these things. I need a bigger house, I need all these different things which are so relevant, and why shouldn’t you have one of these things when you’re working really hard? To the point that they’re just fulfilling that as their purpose and forgetting about themselves, like, they’re gone. They’re not there anymore. The stuff is there, doing things for other people providing the best for their children, making sure they’re going to be the top of their business. So how can we live in a way that we’re able to experience all of those things without burning yourself out? And without completely disconnecting from yourself? Because you can be damn sure you’re never going to be connected yourself when you’re in that space, like, of just on that merry go round. It’s not possible. There is no amount of meditation, silent retreats, sessions of healing, therapy or whatever, that’s gonna change it.

Ellen Shilling 37:11
Oh, you’re so right. Oh, my gosh, what a journey.

Caroline Meade 37:16
And it didn’t stop there. No, it actually got worse after that. I took a break and everything and we went back and I did have embryos and they just weren’t implanted at that point. And

Ellen Shilling 37:27
So not only you’ve gone through this miscarriage, so when the heartbeat was there, if the baby wasn’t growing, as he still had to go through the miscarriage of the baby that it already passed on the baby that was having the heartbeat

Caroline Meade 37:38
yeah, I burried the sack then in a plant with some ashes belonging to my dad, which again, were lovely. But I felt so blessed to have that experience. And I probably wasn’t processing at all at the time, because there’s just too much happening. But it didn’t feel that deep sense of grief around because I felt like I had had a lot of time I was very lucky to actually have those four weeks to process what was going on, take on rest and actually get time while this little baby was taking a time to leave.

Ellen Shilling 38:20
That’s such an amazing perspective, because I can imagine there’s so many women listening to this that are going that was the most horrendous experience of their life that yeah, they had a different perspective understandably through it. What was it that lead to you thinking that way? Do you think?

Caroline Meade 38:40
I think it’s because I don’t see a baby as something that’s mine. First of all, I don’t think children are ours like we don’t own them or anything. And I see a baby as a spirit that’s coming in here as a soul to live you know, I understand wholeheartedly when somebody has a miscarriage – the loss the grief of you know, that’s like of course I think oh, I’d have like one and a half year old twins and that I laugh and think, Jesus Christ I’d have one and a half year old twins now, my god you know, so I think I really just yeah, like so I get all the loss. Oh my God i totally get it. I still think of those babies. I talk about them all the time we named them Oisin and Luke we thought they were boys and that was because of some other weird things that happened as well. And and I get that but I also made a commitment to myself years ago that I wouldn’t get into a negative space with this. Because I go back to that thing of like I’m very lucky I have a really good life I’ve a gorgeous husband and a lovely stepson a great fluffy dog like family and everything and While this is something I still really want, I just thought, maybe for whatever reason I don’t understand it hasn’t happened. So while I know some people find hard to be around people that do have children and all of those things, I want to welcome that stuff in, I don’t want to reject it. I love seeing the pregnant stomachs and people telling me they’re pregnant because you’re like, I don’t see it as this is something I want in my life. And I’m not getting it. I see it as this is a soul that wants to come in or not.

Ellen Shilling 40:29
So it’s a completely different space one is of lack, “You have it and I don’t have this”. Yeah. Whereas the other one is a space of joy. So it’s your spirituality that allows you to step into that.

Caroline Meade 40:40
the funny part is that I was thinking about doing this podcast today, I was writing a few things. And it was like, I probably spent my 20s and 30s, doing what we call spiritual bypassing, which is handing it up. Oh, “there’s a reason” and explaining away things, you know, to not deal with emotional stuff. And then being forced into emotional stuff, like you said, been brought to your knees, been walloped across the head, burning out all the time. That’s what used to happen to me: getting sick all the time, being unwell. Like not progressing my business not progressing, finances being difficult, like I was being affected everywhere. It wasn’t just one area. And I did all of that. And spent years just doing all of that stuff. And then I recognised that what spirit really, really is, which I fundamentally knew. So we’ll be honest, last year I carried on and nothing was implanting. Then I actually got a very difficult doctor. And that was very difficult because I wasn’t actually been listened to at all, and I was now 41. I remember saying to the doctor, I’m closer to menopause than I am to childbearing years, I got my period when I was 11. I’ve had my period for 30 years, I know my body. I was been told I didn’t actually. And because of this difficult doctor I found that really difficult to deal with, have I not know been through enough and now I’m having to fight to be heard about something that is present, it’s been there for years, I know about it. I know my body. And I started to get very angry at that point, I wasn’t angry through the miscarriage, I wasn’t angry about not having a child, I was angry that I was really wasn’t being listened to. And the anger started to get me to a place, maybe in hindsight, the anger was all of this stuff just coming to the surface, maybe I was just lobbing it onto him or whatever, I don’t know. But I was like, I can’t have my voice be so denied and this just can’t happen. And then that was pushing me more towards myself. Like everything that the two little babies have done for me is only pushed me closer to who I have to be here and who I want to be and the life that I want to have. So with the doctor not listening to me and I remember even saying to him, because I used to get really angry with them because he just literally would talk over me, I was trying to say that I know my body, I know my body. And I remember saying to him, you know, you just always see the bad side of me. I said, you always get the bad side of me you always get the anger. And I said it and you think I’m a bitch. And only recently I shared that with a friend who said – imagine what you were saying that about yourself? Because you just wanted to be heard. So that just brought up a whole other level of this stuff where it’s like, listen, I know I can have a body and then obviously there’s medical stuff and science and doctors know, but it was like, where’s my voice gone? Where’s my intuition gone? Why am I not listening to myself? I was trying to tell this doctor that I knew my body because I was listening to my body now for the first time. And it was being told I was incorrect. And I wasn’t I actually wasn’t incorrect but what I had said was going to happen ended up happening and I ended up in hospital in a&e Because I had told them that I needed a particular thing to help me. And I was told no, I didn’t need it and I ended up in a&e last summer. So I’m being admitted and put on morphine and everything. That really got me to a point of okay, I’m so far removed from myself. I’ve had this lovely experience last year, as in not lovely experience miscarrying but I felt connected to myself how am I back being disconnected. And then this is a part of life. So I got rid of everything spiritual. I was like don’t want to know, doesn’t exist whatever. And I got really really angry for months. Probably did my last transfer in December it didn’t work – I got a positive COVID test and a negative pregnancy test the exact same day. Like this is just the perfect end to this story. Because I was able to get to that place where I’m not going to do this anymore. I’m not going to do it to myself. And by listening to my body crying out “please stop”. Like I mean this point last year, I was after putting on nearly two stone of weight from all the drugs, I had been on loads of steroids, like I was bloated – my face, both of my legs were bloated. I was like, I am not even in my own body, I felt. So I made the decision to stop at that point. And that’s a hard decision to make. But it’s because I was like, I’m disconnected. And what actually has ended up happening over the last number of months is I’ve come back to myself, but I’ve also come back to the spiritual side, but because it was always there at first place, I was just like, I can’t deal with this idea, which we talked about – I should have been able to make this better. But it’s not about that.

Ellen Shilling 45:40
No, it’s not isn’t that and it’s hard to reconcile the two sometimes, isn’t it.

Caroline Meade 45:46
Yeah. Because you were told if you follow a spiritual path, you can manifest and create whatever you want. And getting pregnant is the highest form of creation to me, you’re creating an actual life. Like I’ve always said to my husband, god if i can create a baby I’ll be able to create anything that I want. Like as a great space, you know, on your ovaries around creation, like a sacral chakra, you know? And that question of why can’t I create, what am I doing wrong? Yeah. And then as it transpired then, when I decided to finish things and leave things, I got a letter from the Coombe to just say that they wanted me to come back for a follow up from ending up in the A&E (accident and emergency) hospital last summer. And I was like, okay, so I went in, and I sat with this beautiful gynaecologist, and I’ve been having issues. So I said, look, there are issues going on. And she said, Okay, and then she said, right, what are you doing about having a baby? And I said, Oh, no, like, we’re, we’re totally done now. And she sat with me and talked about everything that happened to me, and was like, I really don’t think you’re done. Let’s not draw a line under it. So I actually am due to go back to her this week. But I’ve needed the five or six months to just, like, forget about it and even just with that I’m kind of like – lets just see what happens .

Ellen Shilling 47:03
Yeah, you know, but you’re in a different space now.

Caroline Meade 47:05
Oh, and I’m so glad that she said, I had to get scans done but she didn’t want them done straightaway, because she wanted all the drugs out of my system. So I need three or four months of just clearing your body out, which no one had ever said to me before. And then I go back. So it’s been a lovely time. But what I’m doing is I’m listening to my body. So currently, in this moment, right now, as I sit here, if you said, “We’ll bring you for IVF tomorrow” I’d be like, no thanks, but you know, in five months time it might be a different answer. but right now, listening to my body and not my head. Do I want a child? A million percent? Would I give anything to have a child? probably Would I take more injections but then it came to the point? No, actually, I and this is part of even it’stimeforme – Where do you draw the line on letting your whole self go for something, whether that’s a relationship, because I think partnership was very similar. I liken meeting a partner to having babies, they come with very same energy. The feeling of I’m not good enough, or I haven’t done enough or what’s wrong with me? Why can’t I meet somebody? How can bring them in? How can I visualise them. They’re very similar

Ellen Shilling 48:20
They aren’t they? Yeah, they are and there’s so much pressure on people to be in a relationship. You know, people are looking at your left hand all the time. “You’re not married dont worry now” And I hear from so many women. And I went through it because I only met my husband when I was 40. My whole 30s was just full of that, like,

Caroline Meade 48:38
And sure how would you not take that in and think then Jesus, like, you could have been perfectly happy, maybe walking to meet someone, I don’t know. But if you, you’re gonna feel that way about yourself. And then suddenly your pregnancy like I would have a lot of people that pities me, that were afraid to talk to me about things. And I’m such open book I’d be like just ask me the question, because you know and I had to say it to a few people, I’m not defined by whether I have children or not. You know, it’s not actually part of my identity. Like I’m still myself,

Ellen Shilling 49:10
but it’s part of so many people’s identity isn’t it

Caroline Meade 49:12
And I get that I would love to have a child but I’m also not going to continue to put myself through the wringer physically, and go back to angry spaces and back to physically being really unwell because I’m not a great responder to all these medications, which in itself was funny. And also it was funny as well. I got the negative tests on the day the COVID positive COVID. So I’ve never had COVID and I’ve managed to avoid it for all those years. I actually felt a massive weight off my shoulders. It was our last embryo, so grand we’re done and then I went oh, now I can get pregnant. Like it was like some like heavy weight lifted off me and I didn’t have to do the thing that I didn’t want to do. Now whether we get pregnant or not who knows it hasn’t happened to this point, and that wasn’t the point. It was the release of – oh my god, I can hear myself again.

Ellen Shilling 50:05
In the Celtic wheel we talk about how everything is in cycles, and sometimes one cycle needs to finish before anotheer one can start. And sometimes when we say, Okay, that’s it. That’s done now, we think that’s door closed and time is linear. And that’s it over and done with. But it’s not. It’s saying now we’re stepping into a new cycle. And that can bring something completely different or might bring us exactly what we want. But we’re stepping in as a, in a different space in a different energy into to a new cycle that might …

Caroline Meade 50:33
I think that’s part of like, that’s such a good point, because so many people will feel that to surrender something means we’ve to give it up. Do I want to give up on the thought of having a child? No, have I surrendered and accepted, it may not happen? 100%. I had this mad sporadic trip to Glastonbury last week, and I went there to let this stuff go like to release it. And actually, when I was there, sitting there in the sun, it was amazing. I thought to myself – you’re actually so further ahead than you think you are. You’re okay, if this doesn’t happen. It’s not what I want. But I’m okay with it. Because if it’s ultimately not going to happen for me, I can’t spend the rest of my life hoping for something. wanting something so much that it keeps you stuck. There’s some reason why and I don’t know what that reason is and I might never know what’s what that reason we try to find out. And go into meditation and when I meditate, I get very visual. I’ll go off and I’d be like, okay, spirits telling me the answers. And like you said the chapter closed so I could say – and this is what I really struggled with – if we’re not going to do IVF, that’s it, Done door closed whatever. When this lovely gynaecologist said, I don’t think you should give up and she still thinks I’m going to have to domore IVF in a different clinic. I was thinking, I have to give her a decision by this. So I’m going on Thursday, I have to give her a decision. And what I realised when it was away is No, I don’t grand. Let’s do the next part of this – I’ve polyps will need to be removed. So let’s do the next part. And then I’ll see where I am. You know, so it’s again, back to our mindset we’re trying to define everything of how we think it should look like and we’re leaving no room for life to just kind of show up

Ellen Shilling 52:15
And for magic to come in.

Caroline Meade 52:17
Because it is supposed to be magical. So like when I have moments that are really magical moments where something really strong happens that when I go, that’s Spirit, that’s Source talking, Oh, okay. But we’re so in our heads me included, all the time, defining signs, thinking that we’re not good enough thinking we’re trying to, we’re always trying to fix yourself, we’re always thinking there’s something wrong, there’s nothing wrong with us. Like, there actually is nothing wrong with us. And this is something that this whole thing has done for me. You know, even in my work, I’ve spent a lot of time people pleasing and my work, you know, making sure that everyone’s looked after and also in my work burning out, you know, from looking after everyone else and wanting the best for everyone else. And then you go, this has pushed me to say, why can’t it be balanced? Like, you know, so that’s so yeah, it has changed a lot. It’s changed my work, because my work is me.

Ellen Shilling 53:12
Wow, what a journey that’s been on. For sure.

Caroline Meade 53:15
Yeah. And also like, like, I feel it’s funny, you know, you asked me, invited me to come on this. And we were talking about what we speak about. And I was like, God, I’m in such a better place to speak about this, because so I’m not sitting here with my happily ever after stories. I don’t have a baby now. But I’m sitting here going, Okay, I’m actually fine. You know,

Ellen Shilling 53:35
yeah, that’s, that’s a wonderful place to be. And yeah, because you’re meeting this new cycle, whatever that cycle brings as you say, with a different energy. Surrendering and letting go isn’t saying, like you said, I don’t want a baby you still want that. But how you’re meeting that cycle is much more in tune with your body, you’re bringing your body with you along for the ride.

Caroline Meade 53:54
And also not to say like – I’ve seen this a lot with people as well, where we haven’t had the baby so I have to have a purpose here. What’s the purpose, I’m gonna throw myself into something brand new, and then that’s just going to take all your time and everything and all you’re doing was trying to replace the thing that you want, to me was never going to work for me. I’ve tried different things or, you know, maybe I’m just here in a capacity in my work and not meant to have kids, because I’m meant to show up and do work or whatever. I got rid of all those limiting thoughts and I stopped trying to understand everything. But also not jumping to the next thing like I did. You know, when I was told I was gonna have that miscarriage I wanted it done by the weekend, get this done. Let’s move on. Not dealing with this. Let’s move on. And that baby was like, Oh, you’re gonna wait four weeks.

Ellen Shilling 54:44
Wow, that’s so insightful. We do it all the time. I do it all the time. Myself. Right that things don’t take right next. What’s next? What’s next now? What’s the definition of success? Right I need to chase after that? Yeah, but you’re right.

Caroline Meade 54:57
And I think it’s really easy. Like I’ve listened to podcasts and people over the years talking about surrendering. And I was asking – So how do you do that? Logically? How do I do that? I remember last summer like with all the stuff going on I was like, Okay come out of the head into the body, okay, I’ve let it go, that’s fine. And it’s not something you can nearly formulate but it’s just a thing of – if someone is listening to this and wants to surrender anything, whether it’s this new job or the relationship or something about themself, it’s more like, it’s okay, if this doesn’t come into my life. It’s actually okay. It doesn’t define me. Let me not go off and try to make a reason for not happing. So I didn’t have a baby. I’m just meant to be here to help people go to work. So I’m gonna go full steam ahead of that. No, that’s not really what this is about. It’s like, let me just sit with this go through. I’m not gonna say that having a miscarriage is a nice experience. It’s physically extremely painful. taking the medication, they’re basically the abortion pills, like very, very painful, very upsetting. You know, of course, I would have been upset. I think when I talked about this and told her it was like, I was like flying along and bushfires. And I wasn’t, you know, I have been upset. I do think like these children, I do think about where my life would be with them. If they’re here. I still have the wand for that. But not to the point where it’s crippling me to be able to move forward in real life with older things like, you know, let’s take a long time to get there. There’s no easy.

Ellen Shilling 56:27
No, it’s not. It’s for me, that isn’t as you say, it’s so difficult to define. Because people keep telling me how to ask me, How do I surrender? How do I surrender? And as you say, it’s not one thing. It’s not a formula. It’s not a step by step process, but it’s getting from me to a space where you’re not attached to the outcome. Yeah, you’re okay, either way.

Caroline Meade 56:46
And that’s hard, because like really hard. So I’m like, I really want if you said to me, because we don’t really have adoption, right? Like, you could adopt baby tomorrow, I’d be like, right? Can I take 10? Babies? Yeah, great. I’ll give them the best life. So how do you let go something you actually truly want. And also, I feel in your gut, I really believe this. When you have a pull towards something, there’s a reason for that. Somebody can have a pull towards wanting a particular thing, and you don’t and that’s because I believe there is whether I believe it’s actually meant for you in some capacity, or whatever it is, I don’t know. But there’s a pull for a reason. What we don’t understand is maybe what that’s going to teach us or what’s going to show up instead.

Ellen Shilling 57:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m thinking, as you’re saying that even I know people. I know a lot of women who are who are single, they have a pole, of course, towards being in a relationship. Yeah. And this is same for men, of course, as well, but and they really want that. And they feel like there’s something intrinsically wrong with them, because they’re not in a relationship. And they want to be in one. And then they’re saying, Well, why isn’t this working out? Why isn’t there a reason for it? And we’re not saying here and surrendering and being okay with being single, because, you know, the level everyone should experience what it’s like to be in that relationship, which is back and hard sometimes. also wonderful to, you know, so it’s not saying that it, you know, that you’re getting to a place where I’m independent, I’m fine. I don’t need anything that’s different. But it’s actually having some sort of peace and contentment within yourself around that.

Caroline Meade 58:16
And and actually, then there’s probably more opportunity for to comb in that. Yeah. Because we do. And I think this is where we give it to ourselves. Like, we’ll be like, I’m blocked or I’m blocking something. Sometimes we are, you know, and it’s hard. But also it’s yeah, like somebody, okay, I have to get okay with being single because I’ve had people over the years in those situations, and they had so okay with being single. That’s their new identity. Yeah. When it’s not what they want, do you right? Like, if you want a partnership, you’re deserving of that it’s like to totally understand, and I suppose it’s just, we’re looking for reasons why. And then when we look for reason why it ultimately comes back to what we’re not doing. Yeah,

Ellen Shilling 58:53
we’re not good enough. That’s the underlying isn’t. And then that’s reinforced. I’m not pretty enough. I’m not interested enough. I’m not out there enough. I’m not. And that’s that. That’s,

Caroline Meade 59:02
it’s awful. It is awful. And I think if you were to approach them the place of, I really want this. I want to partner, my wife and want to have the experience of being married or being in a long term relationship. And, okay, I’m gonna go off and enjoy my life stuff. Definitely one thing you know, like, start enjoying what you do have and all that. But if you were to come back into yourself without the pressure, and listen to yourself, you may find another way that you’re going to meet that person. Yeah. Your intuition you may like yourself enough that your vibration, different energy, you may decide to travel to India and meet somebody generate insight when we’re so disconnected. And like I would say that with baby. I’ve been told, I haven’t actually been told I could never get pregnant after you but I have a lot of medical issues, right. So it hasn’t happened. It’s very unlikely. So to me, IVF has basic intelligence. This is my only route to having a baby. So of course, I’m going to push myself to do what I don’t want to do. Because unlike I don’t do this, don’t get a baby, don’t do this no results. So similar for anyone wanting to be in a relationship, I gotta get out there, I gotta get online, I gotta do this. Without a battery, you have no relationship, I gotta want to have kids, or whatever. It’s the pressure that disconnects you. So I think, if I’m only learning this myself, so I’m saying this was like, you know, only starting this process, but like, if we were actually really just in ourselves all the time, without the pressure and feeling shit and everything. What all of the things we wanted to share will probably, it’s really hard to do, like,

Ellen Shilling 1:00:35
Oh, it is, it is it’s funny, I’m laughing, listening to you that I remember, you know, back in 2013 2012, and I’d wanted to be in a relationship for such a long time. And, and I was like, Oh, I got to the stage anyway. And I was like, well enough, you know, this is never gonna happen, whatever. Somebody turned around to me and said, oh, you should go to India. To know us, I stopped doing major major travelling because I wanted to be in Ireland. I’m ashamed to admit that I didn’t want to go away for any length of time in case I met somebody. Yeah, that was my thing. You know, it’s like stay in Ireland, because especially if you meet somebody, and then you go away for six months, or six weeks? Or was three months of the time, that might not last. So no, you better stay in that is the narrative come on my head. And I thought, you know, effect, you’re absolutely right. I’m gonna go to India. And it was a yoga retreat. It didn’t mean anybody wasn’t I was doing something for me. Yeah. And that led me going on some retreats in in Mexico and going through another experience, and that none of them were ever with the intention of meeting something mind in mind. But fast forward then to 2920 2016. I met my husband the year after my nine months after my father died. And my husband has exactly the same birthday as my father. Wow. Yeah. So I nearly fell off the chair. But it was like four years later, I met my husband. And I remember looking at him that first night, I knew there was something. And I was like, I couldn’t I wouldn’t sit here, if I hadn’t been through all of those experiences before. Because I needed them to break me open to allow me to sit in front of somebody to truly love them. Yeah, because that’s terrifying as well. But I needed to do all the work beforehand. So sometimes the things that you’re wishing for, when you listen to your intuition leads you what seems like in the completely opposite direction, only to bring you back sitting in front of the thing that you’re looking for. Sometimes, sometimes it doesn’t happen,

Caroline Meade 1:02:26
but it probably will lead you somewhere else that seems to be better. And I think, like that’s such an obvious story of that, because like you said, if you hadn’t have done all of those things, had those experiences, you probably wouldn’t have even been in that place at that particular time. If this is how our choice I think, you know, I’ve gotten through to I think things are predestined for us, or we meant, you know, a mind that I do believe I meant to have, which is funny coming back from last periods of the day. I was in the airport, and I’ve done all my releasing, I actually felt amazing flows back to the airport. And my flight was slightly today delayed, I met a girl. And she was going home and we’re waiting for the flight and we just got chatting. And she lived in England, and she said, I’m coming home to see my sister’s baby. And I said all right at that saddle, okay. And she said, yeah, she said, she’s been doing IVF she’s 42. She’s probably sick ovaries, and I was just looking at her. And she’s tried for years. And she tried many rounds of IVF. And it just never worked for them. And I like I said to her – That’s actually one of the reasons I’m here like, I’ve been doing it as well. It’s it’s very refreshing to hear someone’s voice you do like because I’m there beforehand, few months. And she was like, Well, don’t give up or whatever she said. And then we chatted when we got to the gate. And she said, You know, I was saying something else for big things being meant to be nothing to do with having a we just if things meant to be the man to be. And she said, You know, I always believed it wasn’t meant to be for my sister. Because it was so so hard for her. And it just made me think that she should stop. It’s just not meant to be and she’s like, Oh, now I see the picture because it was only two weeks old. So now I see the pictures. I’m gonna meet the baby tonight. I’m like, totally as mentioned, and I just I sent her phone right away. We got through and I went on the planet and zero debt. And I was like, there but they are so like their moments whether that means I’m gonna get pregnant for today. I don’t know. But it was the reminder of she actually said what I had been questioning is, is this just not meant to be for me? And then this woman randomly? I don’t know, saying you can think that way. And then when it happens, you’re like a short course it is.

Ellen Shilling 1:04:22
Wow, Carrie, thank you so much for sharing your story with me today. Oh, I think yeah, I think this is gonna be so helpful for so many so many people out there and that journey. It is a tough path. Yeah. And your vulnerability and your openness is is truly inspirational. Thank you. Thank you. I do have two questions for you to round off our podcasts because i i Could creating a playlist. This started from thing I started in COVID where every Friday afternoon, I would create a playlist on Spotify and centred around I think 20 or 30 people you We don’t press play at the same time at five o’clock, and we’d all dance everywhere. And it was the idea was to shake the stress out of our body. Yeah. So my idea is to every podcast guest that comes on, I’m going to ask them what do they what gets them dancing or get some movie? What helps them shake things off? Yeah. And as Taylor Swift would say, over a period of time, I’m going to create a playlist on Spotify that people can follow as well. Yeah. can use if they want to use as well. Yeah. And but Yeah, is there a song that you that gets you dancing that gets you moving that helps you release some stress?

Caroline Meade 1:05:32
Well, it’s interesting. You say that so randomly, I was listening to a 90s Spotify thing of the day, maybe a couple of weeks ago and debrief can only get better. Oh, wow. All in the car. And I was like, Oh my God, I’ve heard this song for years. And I loved it. And I’ve been playing it all the time over the last few weeks because it is really uplifting everything so that will be my song thing. For a very long time. Yeah,

Ellen Shilling 1:06:00
brilliant. Brilliant. Thank you. That is my first question. My second question is what makes your soul smile because this is the soul seekers podcasts and it’s about you know, not just about joy because life isn’t all the bad choices we’ve covered. This podcast is life is everything in between what what brings a smile to your soul your spirit?

Caroline Meade 1:06:19
Probably setting with my goals without my dog and my dog is just like this big affinity without Yeah, the peace, the peace that comes from a dog. Like if we actually want to learn how to be beautiful, follow a dog like ravings that he just sits there. He’s so happy. Like you give him something and he’s just so happy. And then it’s a piece I get when I sit with the children. And maybe in an evening or something like that after a busy day that’s actually lifts like my soul.

Ellen

Okay, amazing.  Caroline Meade. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you